The show ran well over 100 episodes so she must have been doing something right. Brenda being slovenly and legitimately large and unlikable just made the audience realize that THAT was what the MTM showrunners had always intended for Rhoda to have been, the ugly wisenheimer sidekick with bitter, sarcastic cracks. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. The result was that Brenda became the most popular character on a show titled Rhoda. It would have worked so much better. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Brock on General Hospital in the mid-1980s. Rhoda's self-esteem takes a hit when she finally meets Joe's beautiful ex-wife. Exactly one and a half years after her divorce, Troy Aikman's wife Rhonda Worthey was arrested at a high school and charged for being drunk in public. By the end of the third season, the show's writers had taken a desperate step to shake things up: Rhoda divorced Joe. Dr. Dre put the kibosh on Majorie Taylor Greene. Rhoda started that way on the MTM show but was re-written to become Mary's self-disparaging best friend. Why did she have TWO beds? She was only capable of being a recurring character or guest star. Many spinoffs would be unable to withstand the invasion of almost the entire cast of their parent show, but watching, say, Ida and Phyllis spar is great fun, and the sequences filmed on location of Rhoda trying to make it across New York for the big event are unusually ambitious for the period. Interesting AV Club article - How the producers of Rhoda killed the show by making it better Do you think Mary was livid when Rhoda posted hiring ratings it first season than the MTM Show? In my opinion, the Phyllis character was very funny for a few minutes in every few episodes of MTM, but 23 minutes of her in every episode was tedious. She's the most famous cartoon mom in the world, makes $10 million a year, doesn't have to do any celebrity bullshit, no Daily Fail chasing her for "poor fat Julie" pics, all while high as a kite. That caused her plenty of angst and made for a funny episode. R91 Maybe the 6 came lose on the door, and Carlton came up and nailed it back into place. "Sheldon and I have decided that it's best we take some time apart to work on ourselves at this time," the reality star said. Groh and Hackett got into some feud. [quote]At the time, I read that was being considered, but Ted is such an unsympathetic asshole it wasn't plausible. IIRC, Rhoda Show was mostly set in her NY apartment. And the kids would've been subjected to a hypercritical grandmother. Hello. Jeb Bush. And Ive been taking care of our daughters for five years now all on my own.. Whatever happened to her plant shop that was such a big success she hired Georgette. [quote] Since Rhoda was a window dresser, why didnt they have her work in a major department store that has loads of opportunities for quirky stock characters. Brooks and Allan Burns decided to separate Rhoda and Joe for Season 3, later phasing him out all together, as they believed Rhoda had lost her edge as a married woman. In addition, Harpers confidence and verve in the role grew to such a degree that it started to seem ludicrous that Rhoda would be so unlucky in love. Mr. Groh also drew a devoted following when he played D. L. Brock in the ABC soap opera General Hospital from 1983 to 1985. (David Groh got the caning on this one.) Groh was the dad and Joan Hackett was the wife. The other was Lisa. He was decent on drama but terrible on comedies. As I mentioned above, I've re-watched all the Rhoda episodes in the past few years, even the numerous subpar episodes. Val stunk in that too. The concern over being identified with her former role had apparently diminished by the second season as she dumped the wig. But I am #winning R118 - look how wound up I've got you! And if you think our grandparents werent also discussing the pop-culture of the 20s & 30s with us at the time, because we didnt KNOW what we were missing, then Im not sure what kind of home you grew up on, but it seeks like it wasnt much fun. Then show would have been a sitcom about the various issues that interracial couples face, and how they (comically, in this show) deal with them, as well as a show about a Jewish family and a African-American family becoming one. Nancy in her big late 50's musical, "Copper & Brass", running a very lengthy 36 performances. The whole sequence, with many episodes written by the great Charlotte Brown, is one of the most daring things the American sitcom had attempted to that point. By the beginning of the fourth season, it was announced that their divorce was finalized. She was particularly good in a TV movie about a woman driving alone being chased by a killer. Could Groh do anything? Many were big hits. Rhoda would have still married Joe, but this Joe would have been a really handsome and successful African-American. Party Name. They should have killed Joe off, it would have made Rhoda more sympathetic. This article about a television comedy character is a stub. I want to say to my best friend, Yes, girlfriend! I want to dance shirtless at the International Stud. Ida was even softened for the series because she would have been insufferable. But before her declining health, she delivered amazing flicks which shot her to stardom. Rhoda had a fabulous look, a fabulous man, and no fodder for storylines, because conflict is what drives narrative. [quote]He did the Cher Show on his own network and then did an interview in TV guide trashing it and Cher. Village Name. Its almost impossible to do a backdoor pilot well, but the brand-extension spinoff has a higher rate of success than the beloved-character vehicle. Theater was his love, he explained. We needed more of that Rhoda. I'm happy you feel superior, but this is not the place for you. He graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Brown University, studied acting in London on a Fulbright scholarship and served in the Army in 1963 and 1964. Valerie Harper, who played one of TV's most popular and enduring characters the constantly dating, constantly dieting Rhoda Morgenstern for nearly a decade starting . Pop culture obsessives writing for the pop culture obsessed. He divorced Diana after six years in 1980 and afterward went on an 18-month comedy tour called "Boeing-Boeing" with his former co-star on "Leave It To Beaver" Tony Dow. In order to create more flexibility in Rhoda's role, she and Joe divorced. Rhoda said "Ma, if you liked the name Faye so much why didn't you just name one of us Faye>" And Ida said "I didn't like it THAT much.". I dont know why they saddled Rhoda with a divorced guy with a kid. The Real Housewives of New Jersey airs Wednesday nights at 9 p.m. Nobody could figure it out, so they kept handing it off to someone else. Rhoda and her mother together made the show watchable (to a point). Say what you want about her, but for somebody who really was kind of new to the sitcom world, she took no shit from nobody. The end. I wanted to live in that testosterone filled house as a kid. R86 The best thing about the Phyllis spinoff was the opening number. In March 2014, Joe, 47, and Teresa both pleaded guilty to multiple counts of bankruptcy fraud and conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud. Taylor was hot though. I am living inside your head and you will hear my mocking you every time you turn on your TV to watch an old sitcom. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. I loved Julie Kavner as Brenda and think she was the character the writers most enjoyed creating stories for. Order Date. She was painfully thin during the early episodes of S4; Winifed Hervey, who was an intern on the show, recounted that VH had been on a liquid fast that summer and was not in the best mood when she came back from hiatus. I will not say the politically correct thing.". In the beginning of Rhoda, Joe's workplace was often shown with characters played by comedy actors Scoey Mitchell, Candice Azzara and even Cara Williams for a couple of shows. On MTM Show, Rhoda also refers to a brother who is never seen or heard of again. Rhodas parents, Walkers Ida and Harold Goulds Martin, became ever more a part of her life and werent sure what to make of the idea of their independent daughter. "This has been a difficult decision for Rhonda and me, but after 10 years of marriage we have decided to separate. American television had never seen anything quite like the courtship and ultimate marriage of Rhoda and Joe, and viewers were attached to those happy memories of what the couple had been. The 1977-1978 season brought another raft of changes. One ep they are in marriage counseling, the next hes gone, no mention of him again in the next episodes and Rhoda is acting single. She was a void (and, in fairness, only one of many problems with that show). Everything should make sense. I know, I know! So Im watching the marathon and they definitely shouldnt have made her and Joe divorce. All the men in the cast would star in their own shows after M.T.M. I've been rewatching The Mary Tyler Moore Show and just finished the episode where Rhoda had a different younger sister: Debbie, a perky, pretty girl played by Liberty Williams who was getting married before Rhoda. Why didn't they spin off Georgette? And in episode eightstill one of the most-watched television episodes everRhoda and Joe are married in her parents apartment, with most of the cast of The Mary Tyler Moore Show in attendance. Valerie Harper was a very good dramatic actress if you didn't know - stage and TV. Rhoda should've joined a traveling circus as a seamstress for clowns and elephants. I don't know if Valerie really like David Groh that much IIRC, she wrote in her biography that David came in all excited at the start of the new season talking about buying a house in Hancock Park, They sat down to the do the table read of the script and it was about Rhoda and Joe separating, Valerie wrote something that came across as kind of unsympathetic - like no one told him to buy a house. Married Rhoda wasn't as much fun as single Rhoda. When I was a little boy I wanted to be Brenda. From what Ive seen she was super insecure with Joe. The advance publicity was immense, and the episode, on CBS, made television history. As for Sam and Diane, I will never forgive the producers for at least not having them get together in the finale. These types of spinoffs usually take the form of backdoor pilots, episodes aired as part of one series that feature entirely new casts of characters and only one or two from the parent series. Valerie Harper said that Rhonda-Joe as it was, was too "married married Sadie lady" to succeed. Played by David Groh, hes a construction worker, divorc, and father who meets Rhoda while shes on vacation in New York in the series first episode (titled, fittingly, Joe). Joel and I have had a lot of prayerful and meaningful conversations over the holidays and we decided that were better as friends and parents than we are as an engaged couple. Your Ad Choices In addition, Harper, a trained stage actress, possessed a wildly different energy from Moore; she was earthy where Moore was slightly flighty. Brenda Patimkin in "Goodby Columbus." She is so private that friends who have known her for decades said she has yet to invite them over to her house. John is a frequent speaker on divorce-related topics and is well-respected among his peers in the legal community. Have something to tell us about this article? David Grohl seemed to be a very good sport about being unceremoniously let go from a show that he had every reasonable expectation to stay on indefinitely. After Rhoda and Joe's separation and divorce not so much. The story of Mary Tyler Moore Show spinoff Rhoda is one of a show that debuted huge and really did find ways to differentiate itself from its parent series, then found itself falling apart as its producers kept trying to mess with what had worked because it simply wasnt as good of a show as the series could have been. the loyalty and dedication to each other was always there.. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Americans have rarely turned to television to be reminded of the darker and sadder parts of lifeeven when those parts are accompanied by a laugh track. Didn't David Groh play in Nirvana and Foo Fighters? I remember one of Brenda's funny lines. David Groh used to give me such hard-ons! Rhoda and Joe should've opened up a half-way house for a whole bunch of cute delinquent kids! Phyllis wasn't invited either, but she crashed it. Season 4 managed to pull in higher numbers than its predecessor, but frequent changes to its timeslot and opening credits didn't . A lot of that was lost when she moved to her own show. What genius picked the block of wood soap actor Josh Taylor to be her husband in Valerie's Family? Was Carlton the voice of an EMT trying to revive her? She sees Joe with another woman, leading her to believe that he has a girlfriend. With $10 million per year, I wonder what Julie K. does with her money. admin. Rhoda found a new job working at the Doyle Costume Company, a run-down business struggling to survive. [quote]I remember hearing that about with Sam and Diane on Cheers had they gotten married. Rhodas sister Brenda (played by Julie Kavner) was meant to be to Rhoda what Rhoda had been to Mary in the early days of the parent series. I loved Rhoda! Did Mary Tyler Moore wear wigs on her show? 24,596, 2023 NYP Holdings, Inc. All Rights Reserved Aikman was married to Rhonda Worthey from 2000 to 2011. By the time the spinoff series launched a few years later, Debbie was gone and replaced by Brenda, a schlubby underdog played by Julie Kavner. An ex-hooker in the dress design business with a withering sense of humor in NYC would've opened a host of comedic possibilities. Oh dear You boys sound hungry. Seasons 1 and 2 (19741976) Rhoda uses her own maiden surname Morgenstern in her professional dealings as a window dresser and her married surname Gerard in her personal life. The comedies of the MTM Productions studio that produced Mary Tyler Moore were rarely as political as those produced by Norman Lear (of All In The Family), but Rhoda allowed for an occasional window into important issues, like the struggle against anti-Semitism. R80 There's an actor named Steven Kavner who did bit parts on 3 episodes of Rhoda. Ed Marinaro? Like Bess Armstrong she should have been a bigger star. Maybe they didn't want to spend $ on a workplace set. I like the mother (Ida / Nancy Walker) and father characters & the actors who played them. Previous: Why Does Victoria Have A Black Eye On Bachelor. Joe quipped that she could do whatever she wanted to do because it was her house. Maybe he was just lacking in comic timing, I though he was pretty lame on Rhoda. It was weird they shot all those San Francisco location scenes for the Phyllis intro and then immediately changed her hairstyle. Over the course of the first five episodes, the two fall in love quickly and passionately. All I can say is, the shows looked a hell of a lot better now than they did then! There were a couple of episodes that featured WJM's competitors' news anchors. He was just Joe. David Groh was a good actor and they should have given him more to do, instead of just making him cranky and kind of hard to get along with, then dumping him to try to save the show. He was especially adept at playing TV cops. Hilary Rhoda and Sean Avery are going their separate ways. I thought the version of the intro where she tried to throw her hat in the air, as a parody of the MTM intro, was kind of clever. The first season consisting of 4 DVDs costs $9.99 at Amazon at the moment, so it's a relatively small price to pay to find out if the quality is OK for your viewing situation. The following article hopes to help you make more suitable choices and get more useful information Rhoda and Joe are house hunting. That it didnt has to do with a great number of things, but foremost among the reasons it ultimately failed is something curious: This series fell apart because its producerssome of the best comedy producers in historydiligently kept trying to make it better. It wasn't like he wasn't married before to Miss Joan Van Ark. But by her own accounts, so were her struggles with diabetes, alcoholism and loss, about which she remained hopeful, humble, grateful and ultimately remarkably candid. Some features on this site require registration. She also marries a congressman named Steven Cronin, with whom she has a daughter, Rose, circa 1980. The real issue for me is that the character Rhoda needed a straight man to bounce off of. None of it should make much sense. If they kept her divorced or never married, they couldve developed a relationship for a season or two also. It won Harper an Emmy in the lead actress in a comedy category to go with the three shed won on Mary in supporting, beating out Moore. I can see how it turned off viewers back then. Maybe Rhoda and Joe should have had a baby. All you need to do is sign up with your email and boom: credit for your preorder on a new Samsung device. Critics then and now say Rhoda the show was fatally flawed because its premise made Rhoda boringit married her off to a dull (but hot) guy and gave the schlubby younger sister all the good old Rhoda lines and situations. It was a terrible start to an obviously doomed marriage. While her intention is to only stay for a short vacation and to meet her sister Brenda, she ends up staying for good. That's like someone in 1974, the year the show first aired, remembering details of shows from 1926. There were the premise problems. Legal documents, obtained by TMZ, show . Yet with respect to the bottlenecked supply chain, drivers currently in the industry have a clear message: they are not at fault. Valerie Harper played everything from Tallulah Bankhead to Pearl S. Buck. Why was Joe written off Rhoda? Who knew The Cossacks would one day have their own fashion line? Valerie should have been the same way, it was her reputation on the line. Luckily ,they had Ida . R6 I had a friend who lived in LA for awhile, trying to break into the business. He did the Cher Show on his own network and then did an interview in TV guide trashing it and Cher. It was the first spin-off of The Mary Tyler Moore Show, in which Harper reprised her role as Rhoda Morgenstern, a spunky and flamboyantly fashioned young woman seen as unconventional by the standards . Filing Number. The show lasted two more seasons, stabilizing at 28th in its fourth season (which brought back Walker and Gould, both of whom had also left the series in season three to try out sitcoms of their own), thanks to a renewed focus on Rhoda and Brendas dating struggles. click ACCEPT. @r24, Exactly, I know a lot of Jewish Debras (Debbie). [quote]Rhoda Show was mostly set in her NY apartment. Its a show put on the air because the producers of one show want more real estate on the networks schedule and hope that by tying a one- or two-time guest character to a successful series, theyll have an added boost with the network and viewers, who will presumably be excited to see those guest characters week after week. I love Wings and think its so underrated. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Rhoda was so dull by the time they spun her off. R160 Julie was great as Brenda. Were the writers trying to tell us Rhoda was delusional? Were the writers the same as MTM? I think you need to understand comedy, though, to be a straight man. For most of the history of television, the barrier to syndicationand to profitabilityhas been 100 episodes. Frankly, the MTM work / WJM set looks downright flimsy, but somehow worked. She married a doctor. When a sitcom star has a steady partner or spouse, it is deadly dull. ^ Fails to understand what a TV MARATHON is, run the other day. R102, what you wrote makes no sense. And a show that could have run eight years (based on how popular Rhoda once was) died after four-and-a-half. Divorce finalized in 2010. 1. Party Name. On her motivations: "I am too honest for my own good and I have often got into trouble, but I don't regret it. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Today, we're used to seeing buffoon-type news readers, anchors, etc. Whose bright idea was it to center a series around her? The series finally sank without a trace after just 13 episodes in its fifth season (which introduced another separationbetween Ida and Martininto the proceedings), bringing the run to 110 episodes, enough for syndication but not enough to recapture the shows former glory. I havent watched the entire run, just random eps during marathons. Can you record your spouse without consent in California? Then she basically became a supporting character to Brenda. At a time when shes revealed she has only a few months to live, due to cancer, seeing her at her best explains the huge outpouring of grief that surrounded her announcement. According to divorce docs obtained by TMZ, the couple was married in 1997. Gould died Saturday in Woodland Hills, Calif., after a battle with prostate cancer, The New York Times reports. As in real life, nothing interesting can happen to you when you're dragging a ball 'n chain. The Mustang was white, and the car Mary drove to Minneapolis in over the titles. He doesnt appear to be active on social media. I think he and Val had nice chemistry, but there was really nowhere for the writers to go once Rhoda attained a good deal of self-esteem and achieved her goal of a happy marriage. Sitemap, Your California Privacy Rights However, in the first episode of the third season, they decided to separate after Joe revealed that he was restless and unhappy in their marriage. I haven't been able to watch beyond the first 5 episodes of Phyllis recently, even though I watched many of them when they aired originally. Even though the show only fell to eighth in the Nielsens in its second season, the writers were fairly convinced that what would drive even more eyeballs to the show was the thing that had made Rhoda such a hit on Mary in the first place: a woman, unlucky in love, having wild adventures on the dating scene. And audiences hated it. In the episode "Two Little Words - Marriage Counselor", Joe admitted that he never really wanted to remarry, and that he had only married Rhoda because she pressured him into it. Couldn't listen to it. For one thing, Harper and Groh didnt have tremendously good chemistryand certainly not good enough chemistry to carry a series going forward. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. They went on a date following the event and hit it off. for your pointless bitchery needs. Tina was annoying as hell. Davis and Music filled the series out with additional characters who could play to these strengths. But the minute I heard that HORRIBLE theme song, I knew it was in trouble. She was happy the show was succeeding. The two were married in 2001. Do you not understand this is a SITCOM? They were all just very shrill. On Tuesday, the model filed divorce from the former NHL player in Los . The Separation: Directed by Jay Sandrich. Rhoda got a job at Bloomingdales in that season 3 episode where she contemplates moving back to NYC. Ted Knight and Georgia Engel were huge fan favorites too. And I feel like ours was meant to be there for a season, Hoda said. The pregnancy weight would've re-triggered her weight/self-esteem issues, which could've been interesting. 2023 EHM PRODUCTIONS,INC. He tells her to see other people and exits the series . She hates appearing on camera these days and doesn't have to do promo work for The Simpsons (it's in her contract). Carlton is fired after Rhoda and Joe are robbed and Rhoda blames their misfortune on his inability to handle his doorman duties. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. By the beginning of the fourth season, it was announced that their divorce was finalized. In addition, the actor did a bit of TV and appeared in bit-part roles in dinner theatres. Julie Kavner reminds me of Penny Marshall. As such, the characters even became jumbled. Since Noella Bergener joined Real Housewives of Orange County, her marriage took a public tumble. The boyfriend who suggests Rhoda move in with him is named Joe. Joe was lousy as a lead character, he would have been worse as a supporting character. The cause was kidney cancer, said his sister-in-law Catherine Mullally. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Getting married too young: People seeking divorce often say that they were not ready or prepared for a long-term commitment. Through Brenda, Rhoda ends up meeting a young man named Joe Gerard. In episode six, Joe proposes. A finalization of a Troy Aikman Divorce would mark the end of a 10-year marriage between American football legend - and famed Dallas Cowboys' quarterback - Troy . MTM was an intelligently written sitcom. Can you use recordings as evidence in California? Valerie Harper later praised Mad About You and said its depiction of a New York marriage was exactly what she had wanted for Joe and Rhoda, but the network had refused her ideas. [cue laugh track]. It was to MTM sitcoms what a major crossover event is to comics: a chance to get a bunch of characters from different properties together to see how they bounce off of each other. I'm going to go out on a limb R111 and say that most of the 100 or so people posting on this thread did not watch that marathon. I want to dance with the Village People. They couldve come up with something for her as a married woman. Rhoda and Joe's relationship vs. Rhoda dealing with her family (Brenda/Ma/Pop) kind of stood in for that dual focus. It's like they didn't even care. The former couple have 2 minor children together -- a 10-year-old and a 5-year-old. Decidedly highbrow for its era of TV comedy, Frasier made all the right choices to break with its more blue-collar parent series. Or a wealthy dilettante assistant named Karen. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. I'm guessing he was way too old-looking to play Rhoda's husband. It took away from the massive audience of Monday Night Football. said they divorced was that they just couldn't keep finding interesting (read:funny) things to happen to Rhoda while she was married since her life was in perfect order and one of the sitcom rules is that there has to be some kind of conflict for thinsg to work! Rhoda is miserably unhappy and constantly telephones Joe on various pretexts. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Even Gordy the weather man (WJM) was very dignified, esp. I think he and Val had nice chemistry. They made Joe act like a big baby at times. She was creative, could throw out some great zingers, and yet was vulnerable in her self-consciousness. Terms of Use Apparently, Roseanne fought with everybody to make her show the best of its kind, firing producers/writers left and right until she got exactly what she wanted for the series. When network execs demanded Rhoda get divorced, it sent ratings into a nosedive but didn't make her any more interesting, because Brenda was still Old Rhoda. R202- Even the VERY first episode of Rhoda she was more self confident then she ever was on MTM- and attractive. The wedding episode was absolute genius. Jeez, Rhoda was larger in season 5 of her own show than she ever was on MTM. [1][2] This sentiment would translate into a steep ratings decline during the course of the season and the show ranked #32 for the 197677 season (falling from #7 the year before). Then when the marriage was actually breaking down, she was a puddle of insecurity and could barely confront him. Brenda running away from her wedding to Benny, with no resolution? It was reassuring in a very precarious moment in my prepubescence. "In . All of this is grounded in the gentle humanism of the MTM house style, but its bolder than anything that had happened on Mary or on The Bob Newhart Show. [quote] They should have come up with a more plausible explanation for their separation and divorce. Today show host Hoda Kotb announced publicly on Monday, January 31, 2022, that she and Joel Schiffman had broken up. Mary is irritated that Rhoda is not paying back the loan, but R ends up paying Mary back by putting a down payment on a car. Hervey wrote a 'Rhoda' script with Brenda as the lead that got her into the Warner Bros. writing workshop; she talks about it in her Television Academy interview.
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